Prices making you head hurt? Come and tell us your sad story!

saphion wrote:

Quote :

If my card is valued at 50TE and you offer me a card worth 20TE, I would expect 35-40TE

Put yourself in the other side of the trade. would you pay 60TE value for a card you know that is 50TE?

I do for trades when I don't use TE. I've done it many times. I'm not the only one who flip cards.

what i mean is that u said u need 60TE value for a 50TE card. but put yourself in the other guy's shoes, on the other side of the trade.. whether u will pay 60TE value for a card you know its 50TE?

I know i certainly wont be willing to

I would, and that's how I used to buy cards that I want when I don't have enough TE. Why? because I want that card, and have other extra cards that I don't need. Why don't I sell those useless cards first and then buy the card I want? Well that's because it takes effort to sell a card, and by the time I get my TEs together, the deal I am looking for may not be there anymore.

i called this months ago. Game will slowly die out unless mobage offers real incentives on buying te from the store. Bulk te purchases with savings of 33% or so will jolt up the economy.

They also need to take notes from games like DS and give players te for event items...like every unused clover spike and smoke signal will be converted to te(P) which is exactly what DS does for its players.

saphion wrote:

what i mean is that u said u need 60TE value for a 50TE card. but put yourself in the other guy's shoes, on the other side of the trade.. whether u will pay 60TE value for a card you know its 50TE?

I know i certainly wont be willing to

I would if I really want the card or need it. If I have the TE, I'd just pay 50TE but if I don't, I will have to make up for the extra work I am giving. Besides, it is people who offer extra most of the time when they really need the card. I sometimes accept it, ask extra or reject them.

I have traded 5TE+m4* many times for fresh stray cats. I had tons of m4* back then and it was hard selling them. m4* was worth 7-8TE back then and stray cat was worth 4-8TE fresh. I give quite a bit for monsters because I need them better.

Also, my first 5* card was Lily. She was valued at 80TE but I paid 110TE worth of cards and TE because I wanted her.

Just because you don't want to give more than what you want does not mean others don't. Most people right now are offering more than trade values when they can't offer TE. Most or all the time, it's always on the seller's favor.

Very interesting conversation so far.
Anyone want to speculate on what the market will do when the 7*s come out?
Will regular 5* be worth only a few TE then?

Jim4good wrote:

Very interesting conversation so far.
Anyone want to speculate on what the market will do when the 7*s come out?
Will regular 5* be worth only a few TE then?

Most probably, because then will be the 7* player control the market
and 6* will become 5*.
Diana will become Elizabeth as a luxury good.

Of cos..this still needa wait for an increase number in 7*
At first...7* should be nearly a non-tradeable goods as they are extremely super rare....

When 7* cards are released, it will be a disaster and the worst nightmare of all free players.

Still don't agree that this is a market crash. People complain about
not being able to sell 4* and blah blah, but the converse side is that
5* are lowering in price rapidly. Once stability eases in, it'll be
about the same as it was a few months ago, just instead of a Sheryl
costing 60TE, she will now cost 2 TE. Logically speaking, this just
scales with the available TE in the market. 7* cards being released will just make it easier to break into the 5* card territory, maybe even 6*... Saw a Paris sold for 160TE the other day, can you believe it?!?! I remember when I started offers of 300+TE were customary for her

Scary thought tho... if recycling event gives advantages to dropping 4* and 5* cards in, paying players will keep throwing their 5* cards in without any reason to trade. Means a wall is put up between free and paying players with no way to advance...

masta518 wrote:

Still don't agree that this is a market crash. People complain about
not being able to sell 4* and blah blah, but the converse side is that
5* are lowering in price rapidly. Once stability eases in, it'll be
about the same as it was a few months ago, just instead of a Sheryl
costing 60TE, she will now cost 2 TE. Logically speaking, this just
scales with the available TE in the market. 7* cards being released will just make it easier to break into the 5* card territory, maybe even 6*... Saw a Paris sold for 160TE the other day, can you believe it?!?! I remember when I started offers of 300+TE were customary for her

Scary thought tho... if recycling event gives advantages to dropping 4* and 5* cards in, paying players will keep throwing their 5* cards in without any reason to trade. Means a wall is put up between free and paying players with no way to advance...

Before, there was a greater chance for free players to obtain 6* by putting an effort and time. Right now, free players are suffering of the impossibility of obtaining a 6* or too many challenges. We are at a crash and we need to settle down. Event for me, I am still figuring out how to obtain a 6* for my 2nd account and I have tons of m5* and m4*. I can sell them as low as I can but no one is biting off because there is no TE. For now, we are depending on paying players to spend money and hopefully fill the empty economy.

lmnseason wrote:

Before, there was a greater chance for free players
to obtain 6* by putting an effort and time. Right now, free players are
suffering of the impossibility of obtaining a 6* or too many
challenges. We are at a crash and we need to settle down.

How so? If by greater chance you mean 1% more? Because as far as I understand, prices back then were ludicrous and hitting near the 1k mark for TE. Yes, I guess you could get that by playing as a free user, but that doesn't make much sense. Also, you don't factor in people getting 6* as TE prices drop (for 5 months now?) using their own stockpiled TE from before, so the comparison in economy is not apt. Really, the only change is before the chance for a 6* is 1% while now, it's 0%. Difference? Yes. Makes an impact for most players? lolno

lmnseason wrote:

Event for me, I am still figuring out how to obtain a 6* for my 2nd
account and I have tons of m5* and m4*. I can sell them as low as I can
but no one is biting off because there is no TE.

Basically, deal with it

lmnseason wrote:

For now, we are
depending on paying players to spend money and hopefully fill the empty
economy.

Paying players have always filled the economy. Where do you think 5* come from? 6*? Event BT rewards at higher #s? TE is not only thing that will fill economy. It is gold, nothing more, nothing less.

Like I said, they will be forced to switch to other forms of currency or bartering sooner or later and that opens up avenues for obtaining 5* or 6* again - economy stabilizes. Remember, TE is just a form of currency or exchange material. Even if Luna or max cards are not desirable, they will be the only things remaining. If not, they can hold onto their cards forever and play in a 'closed environment' with other top players. Of course, I don't think that's fun when you just compete to see who can dump the most money with free players having left leaving no one to idolize u.

Altho u have a point if we talking about recycling event and it's good incentive for 5* to feed into recycle? If that's true, then yes, Fantasia will die (only paying players will remain).

masta518 wrote:

lmnseason wrote:

Before, there was a greater chance for free players
to obtain 6* by putting an effort and time. Right now, free players are
suffering of the impossibility of obtaining a 6* or too many
challenges. We are at a crash and we need to settle down.

How so? If by greater chance you mean 1% more? Because as far as I understand, prices back then were ludicrous and hitting near the 1k mark for TE. Yes, I guess you could get that by playing as a free user, but that doesn't make much sense. Also, you don't factor in people getting 6* as TE prices drop (for 5 months now?) using their own stockpiled TE from before, so the comparison in economy is not apt. Really, the only change is before the chance for a 6* is 1% while now, it's 0%. Difference? Yes. Makes an impact for most players? lolno

lmnseason wrote:

Event for me, I am still figuring out how to obtain a 6* for my 2nd
account and I have tons of m5* and m4*. I can sell them as low as I can
but no one is biting off because there is no TE.

Basically, deal with it

lmnseason wrote:

For now, we are
depending on paying players to spend money and hopefully fill the empty
economy.

Paying players have always filled the economy. Where do you think 5* come from? 6*? Event BT rewards at higher #s? TE is not only thing that will fill economy. It is gold, nothing more, nothing less.

Like I said, they will be forced to switch to other forms of currency or bartering sooner or later and that opens up avenues for obtaining 5* or 6* again - economy stabilizes. Remember, TE is just a form of currency or exchange material. Even if Luna or max cards are not desirable, they will be the only things remaining. If not, they can hold onto their cards forever and play in a 'closed environment' with other top players. Of course, I don't think that's fun when you just compete to see who can dump the most money with free players having left leaving no one to idolize u.

Altho u have a point if we talking about recycling event and it's good incentive for 5* to feed into recycle? If that's true, then yes, Fantasia will die (only paying players will remain).

4 months ago, I had over 150TE and was saving 400TE for a descent 6*. Right now, I could barely find 3TE towards a 6*. That's the difference. I would have been able to save up for a 6* with few events but that strategy ended. It wasn't even a month that I was able to save 150+TE. I joined late November. Right now, the chance of player obtaining a 6* is starting to change for sure. There are too many products but no1 is buying because no1 can afford anything even at the lowest price. That is the definition of a great depression.

I am not sure how much you have spent towards the game or when you joined but everything is clearly different in the eyes of a free player. Things are a lot more observed.

Quote :

There are too many products but no1 is buying because no1 can afford anything even at the lowest price. That is the definition of a great depression.

It is not because no one is buying or no one can afford a 6* but it is as i said those 6* sellers only want to be fully paid in TE. 100TE card for 100TE NOTHING ELSE. They dont take max 4* 5* or even other 6*s thats the problem

WTS card for 100TE means i want 100TE i dont want anything else... not even if u offer cards at a higher value sometimes.

e.g. just today i saw a person rejecting ana+doro for his vlad and only wants TE and tells him to go sell his ana and doro first

Everyone seems to think that any card as long as its a down trade is worthless but this shouldnt be the case.


TL;DR version:

As long as people thinks cards are useless their value will drop and eventually become worthless

people dont want card because they think its useless -> sell card cheap for TE -> value of card drops -> repeat

saphion wrote:

Quote :

There are too many products but no1 is buying because no1 can afford anything even at the lowest price. That is the definition of a great depression.

It is not because no one is buying or no one can afford a 6* but it is as i said those 6* sellers only want to be fully paid in TE. 100TE card for 100TE NOTHING ELSE. They dont take max 4* 5* or even other 6*s thats the problem

WTS card for 100TE means i want 100TE i dont want anything else... not even if u offer cards at a higher value sometimes.

e.g. just today i saw a person rejecting ana+doro for his vlad and only wants TE and tells him to go sell his ana and doro first

Everyone seems to think that any card as long as its a down trade is worthless but this shouldnt be the case.


TL;DR version:

As long as people thinks cards are useless their value will drop and eventually become worthless

people dont want card because they think its useless -> sell card cheap for TE -> value of card drops -> repeat

People still take cards but it's just the matter of value. If you check my profile once in a while, I have allies and random people doing trades a few times. you have to see the market as a whole instead of focusing on the people selling for pure TE. When people post OBO, there is always a chance to trade cards. A lot of the times, people are also asking for Stray cats, kraken and other 5* monsters. Pots are also at 1:1 - 2:3 rate for TE trades. LE cards are also preferable specially Tanith.

All I am saying is, back when I was new, we didn't have these problems we have now. Why you you trying to disproving me on a very different point? Yes we have problems right now but back then, a new player can work hard to obtain 5* and 6* cards. Right now, there are too many cards but no currency to support them with the new transition of the game becoming more favorable to paying players.

As for me, I don't really have a problems since I have a 6* already with plenty of 5* and monsters. I was an active trader so I am sharing my thoughts to you guys. We didn't have step-up when I joined and the market was booming. We were also trading cards for cards before because m4* was worth 9-10TE and people were buying them at 15-20TE for LE.

I have nothing against you so stop trying to make a debate with me on a different subject. You are clearly misinterpreting my message. I am talking about the difference about the economy when I started and today and yet you are talking about what is going on today and focusing on a specific group.

The only thing I can agree with you is that there is something wrong with the economy. That is why we have to wait for the market to settle down and find a solution. Making an unnecessary argument right now is only going to cause people to an aggressive manner.

lmnseason wrote:

4 months ago, I had over 150TE and was saving 400TE
for a descent 6*. Right now, I could barely find 3TE towards a 6*.
That's the difference.

And guess what? That 6* isn't worth 400TE anymore.

lmnseason wrote:

That is the definition of a great depression.

Wrong. Depression is a period where no goods can be exchanged and when the economy has reached a complete equilibrium for the poor. TE is not losing value, cards are. Depression will occur once TE becomes worthless and everything becomes standardized, but that's not the case.

lmnseason wrote:

I am not sure how much you have spent towards the game or when you
joined but everything is clearly different in the eyes of a free player.
Things are a lot more observed.

And I am observing just fine; sometimes, an external observer from a neutral point of view without much investment is necessary for analysis. Same concept can be applied to the 20's crash.
You're saying Fantasica is crashing because there's no TE. I'm saying Fantasica will only crash once people stop trading completely or TE loses value. Neither is likely to happen unless the recycle event is beneficial to paying players.

masta518 wrote:

lmnseason wrote:

4 months ago, I had over 150TE and was saving 400TE
for a descent 6*. Right now, I could barely find 3TE towards a 6*.
That's the difference.

And guess what? That 6* isn't worth 400TE anymore.

lmnseason wrote:

That is the definition of a great depression.

Wrong. Depression is a period where no goods can be exchanged and when the economy has reached a complete equilibrium for the poor. TE is not losing value, cards are. Depression will occur once TE becomes worthless and everything becomes standardized, but that's not the case.

lmnseason wrote:

I am not sure how much you have spent towards the game or when you
joined but everything is clearly different in the eyes of a free player.
Things are a lot more observed.

And I am observing just fine; sometimes, an external observer from a neutral point of view without much investment is necessary for analysis. Same concept can be applied to the 20's crash.
You're saying Fantasica is crashing because there's no TE. I'm saying Fantasica will only crash once people stop trading completely or TE loses value. Neither is likely to happen unless the recycle event is beneficial to paying players.

No, I'm explaining why our economy is at it's place and why they have chosen the currency at state. I had to just share my thoughts since you are blaming the community. Do I think the economy is crashing? Yes. If you look at my shop, I had a very active one. I sold and traded plenty until things started to escalate on the late January this year.

Obviously, you're a paying player and you will have a different point on view.

Anyways, my point is to explain and not to debate about how the community messed up the economy. I pretty much gave more than enough info to explain why TE is the main currency today. If you have other quarrel, just specify it as a question and I'll try to answer or someone else can who has played the game longer than I have.

I also don't blame SS because it is their game and I'm just a free player riding in. Even right now, I am hopeful until we figure out the economy. I may take a few months for that that's what we will have to see.

lmnseason wrote:

All I am saying is, back when I was new, we didn't have these problems we have now.

I think we all realize this. I just disagree with you thinking Fantasica is headed to a market crash because there's no TE. The fault is with the players for insisting on staying by traditional monetary value and exchange for no real reason when the system clearly doesn't support it for the playerbase as a whole.

lmnseason wrote:

Right now, there are too many cards but no currency to support them with the new transition of the game becoming more favorable to paying players.

This is indeed a problem, but an unchangeable variable. Mobage/SS clearly cater this game to paying players and the move to it is something expected. I am 100% convinced that they will lose nothing when Fantasica dies since they can just move on and make another freemium game and people will gobble it up. Only Zynga seems to have trouble with the freemium model and that's because they are stupid.

lmnseason wrote:

Making an unnecessary argument right now is only going to cause people to an aggressive manner.

I will be honest, I find your posts very condescending, patronizing, and downright rude towards 'newbies'. You seem to have a bias against people whom aren't old-timers or as well off as you despite trying to claim that you are neutral.
But that is neither here nor there. The things we seem to agree on are:
1] The economy is changing.
2] We both know Mobage/SS will not attempt to 'fix' or alter it to be more free user friendly.

lmnseason wrote:

Obviously, you're a paying player and you will have a different point on view.

I wish

masta518 wrote:

lmnseason wrote:

Obviously, you're a paying player and you will have a different point on view.

I wish

Ok so you must be having trouble with obtaining a 6* then. But the point is, I am more than happy to help out new players and a lot nicer than you think. But when it comes to someone blaming the community for what it is, someone has to knock a sense to that person for that kind of resentment. This is why I am trying to explain why we stand where we are rather than seeking blames for a change. This is like trying to make a change without a solution based on one's view rather than treating it as a whole of the community.

We have many players who are aware of this problem and you have to give them a chance to figure out a new system and adapt. There are many things that I my self and many others are used to but we are trying to figure out a new system with the elimination of TE. We can't completely take it out of course because many of us have too many cards at hand already. We just can't do all the card for card trades when we have too much already. I am fairly new but surely, many others have maybe 50x or 10x more cards than I do.

lmnseason wrote:

But when it comes to someone blaming the community for what it is, someone has to knock a sense to that person for that kind of resentment.

But... the community is at fault for insisting on holding value to 6* cards and in general not giving a damn about new players?

lmnseason wrote:

This is like trying to make a change

I'll make this clear once again: I am here to discuss the reasons for the economy changing and the aftermath as per the thread/topic. I don't care about suggestions for change since Mobage/SS don't and will never care either.

lmnseason wrote:

We just can't do all the card for card trades when we have too much already.

Then drown in your selfishness.
No one is asking you to downtrade or invest your resources to fix the economy - it's human nature to be greedy afterall. I'm just saying that if you don't adapt, you can't exactly blame Mobage entirely for 'ruining' the economy when you went into the game full well knowing just what kind of beast it is. Freemium games are nothing new, and if you honestly thought you can nickle dime lower players while over-valuing cards forever, then... well we'll see what happens in a few months.

You guys need to chill down a bit, it's perfectly fine to talk about your different view and takes on the economy; but keep the flaming to a minimum please.

masta518 wrote:

lmnseason wrote:

But when it comes to someone blaming the community for what it is, someone has to knock a sense to that person for that kind of resentment.

But... the community is at fault for insisting on holding value to 6* cards and in general not giving a damn about new players?

lmnseason wrote:

This is like trying to make a change

I'll make this clear once again: I am here to discuss the reasons for the economy changing and the aftermath as per the thread/topic. I don't care about suggestions for change since Mobage/SS don't and will never care either.

lmnseason wrote:

We just can't do all the card for card trades when we have too much already.

Then drown in your selfishness.
No one is asking you to downtrade or invest your resources to fix the economy - it's human nature to be greedy afterall. I'm just saying that if you don't adapt, you can't exactly blame Mobage entirely for 'ruining' the economy when you went into the game full well knowing just what kind of beast it is. Freemium games are nothing new, and if you honestly thought you can nickle dime lower players while over-valuing cards forever, then... well we'll see what happens in a few months.

Long story short, we had lots of TE before that is why we use it as a currency.

If you don't want to hear it from me, just ask other people around why the community chose TE as the currency.

I'm not here to argue, so stop adding fuel on a flame. Like I said, you have to wait till the market settles down. I understand that you are frustrated with obtaining a higher rank card right but you have to go through what everyone else did.

You can choose to believe what you want to believe but there is still the fact that we have to wait for the market to settle down and there is nothing we can do about it.

lmnseason wrote:

Long story short, we had lots of TE before that is why we use it as a currency.

Except I never disputed this, not even once. Are you even reading my posts anymore, are you just spewing random stuff out?

lmnseason wrote:

I understand that you are frustrated with obtaining a higher rank card right but you have to go through what everyone else did.

See, this is why I said you're patronizing and condescending and an absolute joy to talk to.
I have no problem with not having a 6* and am saving up for a solid 5* team actually (really want that Ater!)... but just because I am pointing out that players hold onto old-values for their cards without good reason is the real issue means I'm just mad because I can't get a 6* and lashing out? Please, do try to not strawman or make baseless presumptions, they are flamebait fuel.
Anyways, I'm done discussing this with you since we're obviously not on the same wavelength. Good night.

lmnseason wrote:

You can choose to believe what you want to believe but there is still the fact that we have to wait for the market to settle down and there is nothing we can do about it.

Hehe, this much I agree with.
I haven't go an answer yet though, but do the recycling events make it profitable to dump 4* and 5* cards into it? How does it work exactly?

masta518 wrote:

lmnseason wrote:

Long story short, we had lots of TE before that is why we use it as a currency.

Except I never disputed this, not even once. Are you even reading my posts anymore, are you just spewing random stuff out?

lmnseason wrote:

I understand that you are frustrated with obtaining a higher rank card right but you have to go through what everyone else did.

See, this is why I said you're patronizing and condescending and an absolute joy to talk to.
I have no problem with not having a 6* and am saving up for a solid 5* team actually (really want that Ater!)... but just because I am pointing out that players hold onto old-values for their cards without good reason is the real issue means I'm just mad because I can't get a 6* and lashing out? Please, do try to not strawman or make baseless presumptions, they are flamebait fuel.
Anyways, I'm done discussing this with you since we're obviously not on the same wavelength. Good night.

lmnseason wrote:

You can choose to believe what you want to believe but there is still the fact that we have to wait for the market to settle down and there is nothing we can do about it.

Hehe, this much I agree with.
I haven't go an answer yet though, but do the recycling events make it profitable to dump 4* and 5* cards into it? How does it work exactly?

You and I talk of completely different issues. You are too specific on your targets while my general answers can only contradict your views.

For the recycling event, that is what we will have to see.

PS

I never talked about you specifically nor targeted you. I have always talked about the community as a whole during the entire time. I don't want you to feel attacked by me but I'll just take it that I can't be a dad to everyone trying to teach them why they must understand the world.

For now, max all your valuable cards and enjoy the game. We are both
spewing opinions at a different point of view which is a dangerous type of debate that only leads to nowhere nor find a settling answer.

I'll leave this as it is before this becomes a bad example or a start of a bad influence to the community. This is a community of people helping each other. I'm not really interested trying to explain further as it only get redirected to a new position I don't even intend of going.

How ever you take this message is entirely up to you. We are not politicians trying to win an election.

masta518 wrote:

lmnseason wrote:

But when it comes to someone blaming the community for what it is, someone has to knock a sense to that person for that kind of resentment.

But... the community is at fault for insisting on holding value to 6* cards and in general not giving a damn about new players?

lmnseason wrote:

This is like trying to make a change

I'll make this clear once again: I am here to discuss the reasons for the economy changing and the aftermath as per the thread/topic. I don't care about suggestions for change since Mobage/SS don't and will never care either.

lmnseason wrote:

We just can't do all the card for card trades when we have too much already.

Then drown in your selfishness.
No one is asking you to downtrade or invest your resources to fix the economy - it's human nature to be greedy afterall. I'm just saying that if you don't adapt, you can't exactly blame Mobage entirely for 'ruining' the economy when you went into the game full well knowing just what kind of beast it is. Freemium games are nothing new, and if you honestly thought you can nickle dime lower players while over-valuing cards forever, then... well we'll see what happens in a few months.

Couldnt have phrased it better myself. Mobage didnt ruin the economy.

The community ruined it.
Starting from the top of the market at 6*s. If they want nothing but TE else an extremely profitable trade (e.g. 60TE value for a 50TE card which is 120%).

Because they sell 6*s and since everybody needs 6*s they will go all out selling 5*s cheaply to get it and the effect chains down all the way to the bottom.