| DPS Tables - Massive Update in Progress | |
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+67Jerky Ryosuke Bondurant pizfirez Hurleyvp Lionpunisher GoldoaWillNotMove Tentacle Love MythSearcher ElysianField schizzlemydiz Stubub bx65 Crimson09 supremeJD sd240sx Joradx paveljevs Amasuro chaosbladeuk Schdawn jrdmaan sGabe4 Sabin76 GnatB greatsopp Ariesthecat37 Piggers Balth BraveDemon jackyang919 Ghost_Star xl_astros_lx Luzbel nmtran777 Xedd Rekanize jant0y aubade888 Thalasar dopehk Pandalicious po1102 themadmanazn kyaaya larrydust memphiskite Despoted Br4dford King-Shawe Whenesday dnonamus v4lkyr13 Shirinights bigpig506 aszutai nocturned Wheatmidge snappycow aquCHAOS Kyte dakkon107 predator852 cmud2007 Varis pnoytroi BkWiz 71 posters |
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BkWiz ☆☆☆☆☆
Join date : 2012-09-24 Posts : 954
| Subject: Re: DPS Tables - Massive Update in Progress Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:30 am | |
| - dakkon107 wrote:
- Yeah, poison depends. There is talk that being able to apply poison from farther away enhances it's value. If you can KB/Slow lock a unit so the melees are hitting no matter what, then maybe, Agrippa and Diana are better. I wouldn't use more than one poison unit anyway.
As far as overall DPS goes, I see Vamp and H.Monica being the best, but when you look just at ground attack, I see Agrippa, Diana, H.Monica, and Cecilia being better. I am just assuming that you just take the the stat and divide by the attacks per second value to get DPS. This method doesn't weigh ground any higher than sea, which seems to be what you are going for correct?
I don't think that it is as much subjective as situational, as in what scenarios can you lock.
I just made a spreadsheet that can compare all of this stuff, but want to integrate Strussdell's list to see how everything compares. My idea thus far is to allow us to quickly compare units for different uses. It will allow one to prepare for battles objectively. For example, to fight Hippolyte in the next event, filter for melee units based on ground DPS and you can see that Vlad, Agrip, and Diana are the best. While I like Strus' list a lot, I feel it's not as objective as it could be due to skill weightings and land/sea/air weightings. However, it's a better indicator than my total stat comparison of 'what's a good overall unit'. But for min and maxers, they usually have more than 1 6* unit and thus aren't looking for simply 'what's a good overall unit' but 'what is the best unit that I have in a certain situation'. That is what this list prioritizes moreso than anything else. Example : I'm fighting the black dragon who is weak against melee and magic units. Which is the best against him? Refer to my list and find out.
Last edited by BkWiz on Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:52 am; edited 1 time in total | |
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Kyte Gingerbreadian [SPECIAL]
Join date : 2012-10-27 Posts : 246
| Subject: Re: DPS Tables - Massive Update in Progress Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:44 am | |
| Awesome work, now I can be a lazy bum and figure which units are best to deploy during boss fight without killing my brain cells X3 Thank you! | |
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dakkon107 ☆
Join date : 2012-10-29 Posts : 40
| Subject: Re: DPS Tables - Massive Update in Progress Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:48 am | |
| - BkWiz wrote:
While I like Strus' list a lot, I feel it's not as objective as it could be due to skill weightings and land/sea/air weightings. It's a better indicator than my total stat comparison of 'what's a good overall unit'.
But for min and maxers, they usually have more than 1 6* unit and thus aren't looking for simply 'what's a good overall unit' but what is the best unit that I have in a certain situation. I agree with that, it seems to look at quest and tower events only, and one of those two is useless. I haven't played long enough to know how tower events work to formulate my own opinions on some of these things. So far, I haven't had a good place to try out poison effectiveness and how range actually affects overall damage. These DPS rankings are really a perfect objective framework for evaluating most other rankings though. If you are looking at boss fights like fires or Halloween, these straight up values are perfect. Range can then be factored in for tower defense events and such, with subjective ability scalars for PvP, tower, etc. I don't think anyone has really figured out damage in arena events, so these may not work there very well. I think Clock was working on a damage prediction formula for those, but she said that it was still off on a lot of units. Having series bonuses here doesn't really help. I may try working on those when Arena of Condemnation comes out because those events are pretty awesome, but we will see! | |
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BkWiz ☆☆☆☆☆
Join date : 2012-09-24 Posts : 954
| Subject: Re: DPS Tables - Massive Update in Progress Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:25 am | |
| - Kyte wrote:
- Awesome work, now I can be a lazy bum and figure which units are best to deploy during boss fight without killing my brain cells X3 Thank you!
It's for lazy bums like you that I did this list for. That and I got tired of people questioning me and saying I had nfc what I was talking about... You know who you are... Now they can see exactly why I didn't want to explain everything in a short chat... It's like saying the sun is a bright light in the sky. True, but totally useless.
Last edited by BkWiz on Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:53 am; edited 1 time in total | |
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aquCHAOS Gingerbreadian [SPECIAL]
Join date : 2012-10-03 Posts : 504
| Subject: Re: DPS Tables - Massive Update in Progress Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:51 am | |
| nice job bro ~ waiting for the result | |
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snappycow Gingerbreadian [SPECIAL]
Join date : 2012-10-07 Posts : 159
| Subject: Re: DPS Tables - Massive Update in Progress Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:41 am | |
| Very nice work How about a mod sticky this? As this is pure numbers, unbiased and free of opinion. BTW, those values used for speed, are they just a multiplier, or their actual attack animation in seconds? | |
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Wheatmidge ☆
Join date : 2012-10-01 Posts : 106
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BkWiz ☆☆☆☆☆
Join date : 2012-09-24 Posts : 954
| Subject: Re: DPS Tables - Massive Update in Progress Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:40 pm | |
| Just Petra and Cornelia left. Waiting for confirmation on Seth/Abel before posting.
Will start adding my thoughts on misc things regarding dps later. If there is anything missing please let me know so I can review and fix if necessary | |
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pnoytroi Gingerbreadian [SPECIAL]
Join date : 2012-09-13 Posts : 946
| Subject: Re: DPS Tables - Massive Update in Progress Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:30 pm | |
| - BkWiz wrote:
- Archer DPS
Land : Vampiress | Anastasia | Saki | Minerva | Nina | Oktavia | Reve | Alex
Air : Oktavia | Vampiress | Nina | Saki | Minerva | Anastasia | Reve | Alex
Sea : Oktavia | Minerva | Nina | Vampiress | Saki | Anastasia | Reve | Alex
Total Stats : Oktavia | Vampiress | Nina | Minerva | Saki | Anastasia | Reve | Alex
To Be Completed : Abel | Seth Cornellia is missing right sir? | |
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BkWiz ☆☆☆☆☆
Join date : 2012-09-24 Posts : 954
| Subject: Re: DPS Tables - Massive Update in Progress Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:31 pm | |
| - pnoytroi wrote:
- BkWiz wrote:
- Archer DPS
Land : Vampiress | Anastasia | Saki | Minerva | Nina | Oktavia | Reve | Alex
Air : Oktavia | Vampiress | Nina | Saki | Minerva | Anastasia | Reve | Alex
Sea : Oktavia | Minerva | Nina | Vampiress | Saki | Anastasia | Reve | Alex
Total Stats : Oktavia | Vampiress | Nina | Minerva | Saki | Anastasia | Reve | Alex
To Be Completed : Abel | Seth Cornellia is missing right sir? Just Cornelia left and she is a mage. | |
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BkWiz ☆☆☆☆☆
Join date : 2012-09-24 Posts : 954
| Subject: Re: DPS Tables - Massive Update in Progress Wed Nov 21, 2012 7:25 pm | |
| Seth, Abel, and Petra completed. Thanks xSmall! | |
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nocturned Gingerbreadian [SPECIAL]
Join date : 2012-10-19 Posts : 34
| Subject: Re: DPS Tables - Massive Update in Progress Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:35 pm | |
| petra 1.3 anas 1.4 but anas always hit 1st( tested it w/o setting petra ldr )...mage atk animations r slowest compared to others @@ | |
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BkWiz ☆☆☆☆☆
Join date : 2012-09-24 Posts : 954
| Subject: Re: DPS Tables - Massive Update in Progress Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:38 pm | |
| - nocturned wrote:
- petra 1.3 anas 1.4 but anas always hit 1st( tested it w/o setting petra ldr )...mage atk animations r slowest compared to others @@
Yep, but here is where you are looking at it wrong, I'm not looking at who hits first to get attack speed. I looked at the first 'hit' to the next 'hit' to the get attack speed between hits. This way, my figures already incorporate missile speed, character animation and attack speed delay into the figures. And I don't have to do a whole new set of calculations/data gathering such as animation speed per character, attack delay between characters, etc. It's a lot of work for nothing when all we are looking for as our end goal is unit DPS. In DPS, we only need to know the delay in between attacks and have missile speed and animation speed factored into the attack delay to get the actual attack speed value. To put it into a formula : ATTACK DELAY + MISSILE AIR TIME + ANIMATION FRAMES/ANIMATION SPEED = ATTACK SPEED VALUE. This is a really simplistic formula and doesn't incorporate the fact that Seth and Abel, and possibly Alex have a sliding scale on their missile speed depending how close or far the unit is from them unlike other archers or mages. - Quote :
- The points used in the attack speed calculation are the points of impact. As soon as the number pops up during an attack, the first point is noted. When it comes up again, the second point is noted, etc. The attack speed is then estimated based off a stop watch and the average of the times between the two points.
Already pointed that out in my misc post portion as you can see. I'll edit it and add more of an explanation at that bullet point so there is less confusion. | |
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BkWiz ☆☆☆☆☆
Join date : 2012-09-24 Posts : 954
| Subject: Re: DPS Tables - Massive Update in Progress Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:48 pm | |
| - snappycow wrote:
- Very nice work How about a mod sticky this? As this is pure numbers, unbiased and free of opinion.
BTW, those values used for speed, are they just a multiplier, or their actual attack animation in seconds? Forgot to reply to this, I apologize, the values for attack speed are the actual times in between attacks. So the first time a damage number pops up, that is one 'point', the second time a number pops up that is the second 'point'. As I said earlier, once I have the time between those two points, I can use the non modified stats from the japanese wiki and simply divide them by the attack speed in order to get the damage per second the unit puts out. | |
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aszutai Gingerbreadian [SPECIAL]
Join date : 2012-10-18 Posts : 1083
| Subject: Re: DPS Tables - Massive Update in Progress Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:21 pm | |
| This is awsome BK, thanks for putting in the time to do this | |
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bigpig506 ☆☆
Join date : 2012-09-11 Posts : 269
| Subject: Re: DPS Tables - Massive Update in Progress Thu Nov 22, 2012 2:22 am | |
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snappycow Gingerbreadian [SPECIAL]
Join date : 2012-10-07 Posts : 159
| Subject: Re: DPS Tables - Massive Update in Progress Thu Nov 22, 2012 10:39 am | |
| - BkWiz wrote:
- Forgot to reply to this, I apologize, the values for attack speed are the actual times in between attacks. So the first time a damage number pops up, that is one 'point', the second time a number pops up that is the second 'point'.
As I said earlier, once I have the time between those two points, I can use the non modified stats from the japanese wiki and simply divide them by the attack speed in order to get the damage per second the unit puts out. I thought so too, just asking as you didn't indicate them on the table earlier, and also since other people's rankings put an arbitrary multiplier/points for speed. | |
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Shirinights ☆
Join date : 2012-10-01 Posts : 19
| Subject: Re: DPS Tables - Massive Update in Progress Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:23 pm | |
| I'm totally dumbfounded by the work you done there... Amazing work! Appreciated the work you have compiled there. *Bookmark page* =D | |
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v4lkyr13 ☆
Join date : 2012-09-28 Posts : 48
| Subject: Re: DPS Tables - Massive Update in Progress Fri Nov 23, 2012 12:36 am | |
| Finally, a dedicated findings about DPS where some people just do not have an understanding how it works (no offense) Props to you BK to get this done. Appreciated it much. | |
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dnonamus War Hero [Rare]
Join date : 2012-10-10 Posts : 89
| Subject: Re: DPS Tables - Massive Update in Progress Fri Nov 23, 2012 6:32 am | |
| Very informative, it's amazing to see how much the game's developers deviated from actual time data for some of the units. Blethi is a big one, Revoke his C status immediately. I like seeing that my own work isn't too far off base. My S to D ratio of 2:1 remains to be a fair approximation for example (except for those extreme cases referenced above). Wonder why the developers can't get the speed data right? The sprite animation frames can be counted and the letter system could just correspond with the number of frames. Not really too hard since they are the ones doing the animation. | |
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Whenesday Gingerbreadian [SPECIAL]
Join date : 2012-10-02 Posts : 244
| Subject: Re: DPS Tables - Massive Update in Progress Fri Nov 23, 2012 7:10 am | |
| Mad props to you BKWiz! Tremendous amount of time and effort must have been used for those helpful data! | |
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dnonamus War Hero [Rare]
Join date : 2012-10-10 Posts : 89
| Subject: Re: DPS Tables - Massive Update in Progress Fri Nov 23, 2012 7:40 am | |
| - snappycow wrote:
- I thought so too, just asking as you didn't indicate them on the table earlier, and also since other people's rankings put an arbitrary multiplier/points for speed.
While BK's testing is more accurate I think calling other's work arbitrary is a bit of a stretch. in My spreadsheet for example although I used the game's flawed letter system to derive my speed bonus from I ran many tests to develop that that bonus and didn't just apply values at my whim. Though knowing the game's system is flawed was a subject of some personal frustration I did not have the resources or time to do individual tests on each of the game's 212 units. | |
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BkWiz ☆☆☆☆☆
Join date : 2012-09-24 Posts : 954
| Subject: Re: DPS Tables - Massive Update in Progress Fri Nov 23, 2012 11:50 am | |
| - dnonamus wrote:
- snappycow wrote:
- I thought so too, just asking as you didn't indicate them on the table earlier, and also since other people's rankings put an arbitrary multiplier/points for speed.
While BK's testing is more accurate I think calling other's work arbitrary is a bit of a stretch. in My spreadsheet for example although I used the game's flawed letter system to derive my speed bonus from I ran many tests to develop that that bonus and didn't just apply values at my whim. Though knowing the game's system is flawed was a subject of some personal frustration I did not have the resources or time to do individual tests on each of the game's 212 units. Personally I like your spreadsheet best since it closely matches my own data without having the actual data. As I said on your thread, there was only one major discrepancy that I noted. | |
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predator852 Gingerbreadian [SPECIAL]
Join date : 2012-10-04 Posts : 1326
| Subject: Re: DPS Tables - Massive Update in Progress Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:08 pm | |
| Bumping this because it need not be lost | |
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BkWiz ☆☆☆☆☆
Join date : 2012-09-24 Posts : 954
| Subject: Re: DPS Tables - Massive Update in Progress Fri Nov 30, 2012 11:10 pm | |
| Looking for Dana to run a quick test if anyone has her.
Using this as a notepad for Arena DPS.
Under Chip Effect
Charles - 107735 Reinhard - 129674 Antony - 112525 Ellen - 190748 Frank - 76717 Belethi - 171907 Oktavia - 194532 Reve (AE) - 320563 Reve - 183179 Reinhard - 129674 Nina - 168284 Agrippina - 213212 Vampiress - 183260 Faith - 163509 Faith (AE) - 286141 Georgios - 240186 Monica - 222520
Player Unit Attack Order
Charles Reinhard Ellen Agrippina Belethi Nina Oktavia Georgios Vampiress H.Monica Monica Reve Gloria Faith
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