Nature of raffles

I am quoting from this link:
http://www.fantasicaunofficial.com/t5260p30-win-5-te-1millluna-entry-fee-7-spaces-leftrisk-free-scam-free-win-5te

sGabe4 wrote:

I don't think this is such a good idea.
I know you probably have no bad intentions, but many people have been scammed in "raffles" before.
You should close this thread...

Ah, I think you don't really need to scam on this one.
This is too obviously a very good(and greedy) way of making TE for the holder, 40 participants, each will give 3TE,
so the holder gets 120TE, and only need to give out 30TE and Patricia at the conclusion.
Patricia, which is at most 30TE worth, means basically at least a pure 60TE profit(and I wish people luck to be able to sell a Patricia for 30TE, TC got a person selling for 25 right now, so, a 65/120 profit, or 54+%)

You don't need to really scam for TE, the raffle system itself is so unbalanced that the raffle holder can earn so much from continual holding raffles that it is counter intuitive to scam out of that.
Actually,

A fairer raffle system will increase the prizes according to the number of participants.
For example, enter fee 1 TE.
If less than 5 participants, prizes will be 3TE.
5~10 Participants, prizes will be 6TE, 1st prize 4TE, 2nd 2TE.
11~15 Participants, prizes will be 12 TE, 1st prize 6TE, 2nd 4TE, 3rd 2TE.
16~20 Participants, prizes will be 17TE, 1st prize 8TE, 2nd 5TE, 3rd 2TE, 4th&5th 1TE each.
etc. etc.

Raffle holder will have a chance of losing 1TE in all cases, so the holder is also paying 1TE to enter, but will have a chance of winning 4TE max(if there's a max number of people in that tier participating), while other participants will have chances of winning a really large amount, which further attracts people to join.

Or simpler, depending on the number of TE collected, raffle holder will take 1%, and give 50% of it to 1st winner, 25% to 2nd place, and 24% to 3rd~nth.

Of course, if I see a raffle that is so fair, I will start worrying about scamming issue, but securities aside, this is the kind of raffle I will enter, instead of one that is so obviously the raffle holder is making greedy profit.

MythSearcher wrote:

tl;dr

No need to scam on anything really, but always possibility to be even more greedy!

CardCaptorSophia wrote:

!!CURRENT RAFFLE ON HOLD DUE TO SPECULATION OF SCAMMING! WTF?!!
QUICK RAFFLE SO I CAN GAIN TRUST AND REFERENCES FOR NOT BEING A SCAMMER! WANTING TO BUILD REPUTATION FOR BEING A LEGIT RAFFLE HOLDER

so she/he is buying people's trust with 5Te.

CardCaptorSophia wrote:

This will be proof that i am trust worthy and am NOT 100% NOT A SCAMMER!

double negative is positive.

This will be proof that i am trust worthy and am NOT 100%

CardCaptorSophia wrote:

Contact me In-game or PM or kik

Meaning if she/he scams it won't be public.

CardCaptorSophia wrote:

This Raffle is so that I can gain the trust of You and future participants

Meaning she/he can use this ''earned'' (although i see it as bought) trust to scam big numbers.

CardCaptorSophia wrote:

This first 3 raffles are going to be LUNA only, so that is it risk free!

if there is no risk why would we trust her/him if she also takes no risk?

CardCaptorSophia wrote:

I DO NOT AND NEVER INTEND ON SCAMMING ANYONE DUE TO THE FACT THAT I DO NOT WANT TO BE SCAMMED MYSELF!

No one wants to be scammed. doesn't stop those who Are scamming.

CardCaptorSophia wrote:

For people who Participate thank you for your trust and patience with this raffle. I am Thankful for your trust and will respect you for that

another example : risk nothing so why would we trust her/him?

And lastly.

CardCaptorSophia wrote:

Disclaimer: Raffle prizes are not for negotiation and will not change once it has started. There will be no refunds once you have been entered into the raffle. There is no guarantee that you will win as there can be only one winner of each raffle unless stated. So enter at your own risk!

So this is the get out of jail free card.

meaning If you do get scammed. there's nothing you can do about it since you knew the risk.

My oppinion?

Ban this kind of chance games.

it's on the forum if people do get scammed on the forum there will be problems.

I honestly don't see the problem if we're still allowing albuming.
Albuming is just as risky and arguably even more risky than raffles.
At least with raffles, the person has less incentive to scam you since they're already raking in TE from people participating and on the off chance that they do scam you, you only lose 2-3TE at the most.
With Albuming, the person have more incentive to scam since the only thing they get is a number increase in their profile and if you do get scammed you stand to lose a lot more since they usually happen to rare LE 6*s.
So if we're going to ban raffles then abluming should have been banned a long time ago.

Also, I don't mean to point fingers at anyone, but doesn't this count as Personal attack? I mean, we don't go around calling everyone on the forum who albums a scammer just because of album scammers..

But that's the beauty of a forum, isn't it?

An idea's put forth and everyone's allowed to have a go at it from all angles, good and bad.

Moreover so for this case, people who would have blindly participated without thinking through the possible avenues for abuse or scamming are better informed.

If the participants still choose to go ahead, then we can't say we haven't done our part as community members to talk some sense or reason into them.

I'll never participate in a raffle - all it takes is for some player with an alt account to "win" it. It's easy to stay untraceable, and even if it's a one-off, that's quite a bit of unjustified TE earned for minimal work.

I'd say no raffles should be allowed, but that's just MY opinion.

GoldoaWillNotMove wrote:

I honestly don't see the problem if we're still allowing albuming.
Albuming is just as risky and arguably even more risky than raffles.
At least with raffles, the person has less incentive to scam you since they're already raking in TE from people participating and on the off chance that they do scam you, you only lose 2-3TE at the most.
With Albuming, the person have more incentive to scam since the only thing they get is a number increase in their profile and if you do get scammed you stand to lose a lot more since they usually happen to rare LE 6*s.
So if we're going to ban raffles then abluming should have been banned a long time ago.

Also, I don't mean to point fingers at anyone, but doesn't this count as Personal attack? I mean, we don't go around calling everyone on the forum who albums a scammer just because of album scammers..

in albuming there are only two people involved.

this can be manipulated in some ways.

GoldoaWillNotMove wrote:

Also, I don't mean to point fingers at anyone, but doesn't this count as Personal attack? I mean, we don't go around calling everyone on the forum who albums a scammer just because of album scammers..

It's not a personal attack but more like a discussion of the nature of the game. If you think this is a personal attack, might as well go on reddit or something with upvoting and a hugbox community :p

But I agree that let people do what they want for now. There's no way to be sure that this is a scam (although the terms and conditions are highly unfair to the players and there's the possibility of him asking his friends/making dummy accounts to 'win'), so I say we let people participate if they want to. If it all goes well? Someone is happy! If it's a scam? Suckers!

:p

Just now I saw an ad for a raffle in-game
the account was created 2 weeks ago, the player is still on chapter 1 and has only 8 card in his unit album, but has a maxed Patricia, no battles, no event participation, no nothing in the profile

still people are breaking their necks running to his "raffle" paying him TE/Luna for the off chance to win "something"

I decided that if people willingly fall for these kind of things, then whether they get scammed or not is totally on them. I don't care anymore, I just feel like they are super unfair.
I rest my case.

A better raffle would be to say buy something from their shop and say add 1 te or pot to also enter their raffle thus even if you lose at least you have something.

Timed wrote:

A better raffle would be to say buy something from their shop and say add 1 te or pot to also enter their raffle thus even if you lose at least you have something.

This is reasonable, and actually a similar promotion was performed by a Japanese company a few years ago.
"PXcari SwXXt" (Not making ads here, censoring =)
Its a drink, and the more you buy their product (counted in ml) within the game period, the higher chance you get from the raffle.

We can't regulate everything. I never participate in raffles, because I'll never give anyone something for nothing.

Every once in a while I'll participate in auctions, that's only because everything I have stays with me until the end.

But if people CHOOSE to give something for nothing, I don't really think it's my responsibility (or any other mod/admin) to back them up when they come away with nothing.

No one here is an innocent child, we all are at least old enough to handle a smartphone and join a forum. And everyone everywhere has a responsibility to guard/use their pssesions the way they want. If that means you want to metaphorically let a robber into your house so be it.

MythSearcher wrote:

Timed wrote:

A better raffle would be to say buy something from their shop and say add 1 te or pot to also enter their raffle thus even if you lose at least you have something.

This is reasonable, and actually a similar promotion was performed by a Japanese company a few years ago.
"PXcari SwXXt" (Not making ads here, censoring =)
Its a drink, and the more you buy their product (counted in ml) within the game period, the higher chance you get from the raffle.

Groups of stores(malls) in Japan also run raffles for purchases. Take your receipt to a desk in the mall and they dispense a ball. They're almost all white. Good for a pack of tissues. Cry more.

pknott wrote:

Groups of stores(malls) in Japan also run raffles for purchases. Take your receipt to a desk in the mall and they dispense a ball. They're almost all white. Good for a pack of tissues. Cry more.

Yeah, these are simple to make and usually you have nothing to lose, for both organizer and participants.
They are not making money off entry fee, but selling actual products, the raffle is simply an added value.

In fact, come to think of it, HK got this electronic money company that gives out rebates by way of raffles, you usually earn 0.5%, but if your purchase is above a certain amount, you can then enter a raffle, and the rebate will be pumped up by a factor of 2X~30X, which, is actually a really small number, but it kinda make people happy.

WOW !!! I never knew this was here! I am offended that this community would do something like this! PUBLICLY OUT! and try and humiliate a person like this!

As you can see i am new to this game ! Which sGabe very kindly pointed out! Oh and i would like to personally thank him for attacking me in game on my wall to! you are such a kind, Caring and amazing person Oh and i should thank ElysianField for concocting that great theory on how i am indeed a scammer, you are also an amazing person.

I cant believe im doing this . . . but if you must know , please, read on.


I have played fantasica previously and was still a new player, but have since had that device stolen hence why i have a new account on my new phone. When i had my old account i was selling cards on this forum. I never did battles on my old account/ and was never into collecting cards. SO whats the problem? i have played this game before so i know what cards i want and because my album count is low ? I am scammer? Really? A scammer? I dont expect you to know my life story but really? How ignorant.

This was my first ever raffle ! I THOUGHT i was being innovative in doing a raffle because i am new to this game and had never seen anyone do one before. I never knew there was a history with raffles , let alone that it was a tool used to scam people. I Honestly didn't know that there were ever other raffles and i honestly didn't see a problem with the price of my first raffle. Someone could of helped me reprice it or constructively said something but, then the people who did respond really did a good job at making me feel like a i was personally attacked and made me feel like i was indeed a scammer.

You really think a scammer would still try and proceed to do a raffle when they are called out like this?

You may think i am being greedy or whatever but thats your opinion on the matter. I believe this is a personal attack and your trying to create a negative image for me WHEN I WAS NOT THE ONE WHO SCAMMED THOSE PEOPLE WITH PREVIOUS RAFFLES! It is stupid that because other people have been scammed from this type of thing that i am a called a criminal in the same regard.

The disclaimers were there because as it states I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR PEOPLE WHO DONT WIN! And obviously to protect myself from people like this who like to put down people and make them feel like they have done something wrong when clearly i have NOT!.

I changed my event from raffles to quizzes because of the reason that it would be considered spamming in terms of how i initially planned do it. and also quizzes are more controlled on the part of the people who would potentially participate.

It worked out fair and everyone was in agreement that it was fair. Obviously the people did receive their prizes if you dont believe me contact them there info is still on the topic i did.

It sickens me that i have to defend my character! Also I would like to thank you people for making my time on this forum very negative. I am strong in what i believe in and do not believe in ripping others off! The raffle was a gamble which people who participated understood THAT FACT! And they were fine at the chance that they could lose.

SO WHATS THE PROBLEM! IF YOU GUYS WANTED TO KNOW MY LIFE STORY YOU REALLY SHOULD OF ASKED ME YOURSELF! But then its really none of your business , thank you for making assumptions and judging me because i decided to make a raffle. Oh and also thank you for this wonderful welcome to the forum! Being talked about in a negative post is very welcoming

oh so it WAS YOU in game
you have a very funny and fishy account dear

you're defense is full of contradiction, and desperation
you have a maxed Patricia, you are like lvl 32 and have basically nothing in your album and you NEVER RANKED IN ANY EVENT even though your account was created a long time ago, plus your battle count is 0 on both sides

I think this speaks for itself... I rest my case
Anyone who falls for your BS deserves what's coming for them.

good bye and have a nice day

CardCaptorSophia wrote:

But seriously bro, bad idea. The lack of transparency in these personal mini-events of yours is frightening.

CardCaptorSophia wrote:

You really think a scammer would still try and proceed to do a raffle when they are called out like this?

Seriously, yes.

A scammer will pretend to be not a scammer until the scam is done, and if they were called a scammer, they will just pretend they are not and keep on going. Contrasting normal trusty players that will likely think of better ways that will not get their reputation down by doing suspicious activities.

But with such high profit you are getting, I have trouble seeing you scam at all if ANYONE fall for this kind of raffle system.
You just keep earning tons of TE, doubling the TE you prepared every time you hold a raffle, is just a perfect business that I don't see why you need to scam at all, which is much less efficient, since you need to create new accounts every time you do it, and people will just be less and less willing to enter.

CardCaptorSophia wrote:

You really think a scammer would still try and proceed to do a raffle when they are called out like this?

Why not?

About albuming cards, many people use collateral (and should) so that one would keep items of equal/similar value to whatever is being albumed. If a scam occurs, you still have something of value.

In raffles where you submit an entry fee however, you are left with nothing unless you win.
If the raffle is rigged, where an ally/alt account wins, ALL the participants who paid the entry fee are left with nothing.

I think it's important to raise awareness of the possibility of raffles being rigged, and other risks that aren't immediately obvious. If participants are informed of the risks and they still proceed and something happens, it's their own fault.

Personally, I don't like raffles because of their format where the person holding the raffle gets to hold all the items, leaving participants with nothing. Little to no risk for the person holding the raffle, and high risk for the participants.

I find the format of auctions much better. If the auctioneer keeps the card and doesn't go through with the trade, at least the bidder keeps their TE/items.

Also, regardless of whether or not this is a scam, I feel that advertising a raffle in other people's store threads is bad etiquette. (Checked CardCaptorSophia's past posts)
I think the term was thread-jacking, although I may be wrong.

HinakiHinari wrote:

About albuming cards, many people use collateral (and should) so that one would keep items of equal/similar value to whatever is being albumed. If a scam occurs, you still have something of value.

In raffles where you submit an entry fee however, you are left with nothing unless you win.
If the raffle is rigged, where an ally/alt account wins, ALL the participants who paid the entry fee are left with nothing.

I think it's important to raise awareness of the possibility of raffles being rigged, and other risks that aren't immediately obvious. If participants are informed of the risks and they still proceed and something happens, it's their own fault.

Personally, I don't like raffles because of their format where the person holding the raffle gets to hold all the items, leaving participants with nothing. Little to no risk for the person holding the raffle, and high risk for the participants.

I find the format of auctions much better. If the auctioneer keeps the card and doesn't go through with the trade, at least the bidder keeps their TE/items.

Also, regardless of whether or not this is a scam, I feel that advertising a raffle in other people's store threads is bad etiquette. (Checked CardCaptorSophia's past posts)
I think the term was thread-jacking, although I may be wrong.

Well, there are ways that the raffle out come can be totally fair and random.
Use online dice throwers that keeps the record, or just simply use the next lottery numbers from a random location in the world.

I actually designed a fairer and more scam free raffle system.
It cannot be rigged, with online timestamps as prove,
Firstly, upload password encrypted files that contains name of prizes.
For easy management, use number 1~100 as the file names.(some will be useless items, like 1* cards or Luna, but you need at least 2~3 items that are attractive.)
Everyone can download them, but no one got their passwords.
The list of prizes will be listed out before hand.
Participants pay to choose a number, and the organizer will announce the password for that numbered file.
People can then open the file and read the prize, while the organizer pay the prize to that participant.
The organizer can only do 1 trade at the time, this will be watched by everyone on the forum.
(Just follow the forum posts)
So if the organizer decided to scam, the most s/he can get is 1 entry fee, maybe 1TE, which is an inefficient and very unlikely scam.
The organizer needs to distribute the prizes right to make a profit, or s/he is in the risk of losing a great amount. (If the first participant gets the grand prize, the organizer still need to have 2nd or 3rd prizes that are less valuable but still attractive so people will be interested to keep playing.)

This way, it is very difficult to rig the raffle, since taking the grand prize means you lose a lot of participants' interest.

This is using the ichiban kuji system in its essence.

A sample list of prize of a 1TE entry fee raffle is like this:
Grand prize(1 total): 20TE or similar value card.
2nd prize(1): 10TE or similar value card, regular card pack 5*.
3rd prize(2): 4TE or max 4* feeder.
4th prize(6): 2TE
5th prize(10): 1TE
6th prize(10): 1 Potion
7th prize(30): lv6 2* feeder set
8th prize(40): lv1 1* feeder set
Special prize(2): hidden within 7th & 8th prize numbers, you get 3 Potions.

The total amount of TE given out will be approximately 68~76(depending how much you value Potions)
There is a risk that the organizer loses greatly(The first 12 participants got all prizes 1~4 and the 2 special prizes, so organizer gets 12 TE but given out 60 TE and 6 Pots.) but that probability is not high(1 in 44277496045533614223360000).
If the organizer continue to hold raffles like this, in the end s/he will be making a profit(but kinda slow)

As everyone is monitoring the prizes, and everyone will know who got the prizes, this is relatively harder to rig.
However, this is not completely rig proved, since at a certain point, when about half of the prices are opened, and the organizer is making a certain amount of profit, s/he can still use an alt or get a friend to chose that grand prize number. However, chances of this is also not that high, and by probability, you can't really make much more profit than honestly holding the raffle.

To rig proof this, however, can make it so that a 3rd person, create a list of numbers, that will be used to match the organizer's list to create the final result.
So the participant choose a number, the 3rd person's number will then point it to a new number, which is the organizer's number.

This way, the 3rd person, along with the organizer, should have no way of telling which number is the grand prize unless they are teamed.

A further step can have 1 of the 8th prize winner to make the 3rd person list, that way it will be fair and random every time.

That's a pretty interesting way to go about a raffle, and I haven't seen one done that way.

It certainly sounds like it would work much better than the common raffle format.

HinakiHinari wrote:

That's a pretty interesting way to go about a raffle, and I haven't seen one done that way.

It certainly sounds like it would work much better than the common raffle format.

Too bad I don't have the resources to do that.
And I am not a person who like to gamble, I just like the calculations XD

The format is ichiban kuji:
http://1kuji.bpnavi.jp/

It is a prize type raffle.
A sample one is like this:
http://1kuji.bpnavi.jp/item/499/
You draw once with 600 yen (about $6 USD?)
Usually the first few prizes are really cool, but you have lesser prizes that are obviously not worth that much, like towels.
(Okay, I guess for a fan those are still worth a lot.)

MythSearcher wrote:

HinakiHinari wrote:

That's a pretty interesting way to go about a raffle, and I haven't seen one done that way.

It certainly sounds like it would work much better than the common raffle format.

Too bad I don't have the resources to do that.
And I am not a person who like to gamble, I just like the calculations XD

The format is ichiban kuji:
http://1kuji.bpnavi.jp/

It is a prize type raffle.
A sample one is like this:
http://1kuji.bpnavi.jp/item/499/
You draw once with 600 yen (about $6 USD?)
Usually the first few prizes are really cool, but you have lesser prizes that are obviously not worth that much, like towels.
(Okay, I guess for a fan those are still worth a lot.)

Oh, I actually have seen this format haha. I knew IchibanKuji sounded familiar, but I couldn't quite put my finger on it. I've only actually seen the prizes labeled with A B C D etc for stuff like Gurren Lagann and Macross F and never really looked into the lottery system they used.

HinakiHinari wrote:

I think it's important to raise awareness of the possibility of raffles being rigged, and other risks that aren't immediately obvious. If participants are informed of the risks and they still proceed and something happens, it's their own fault.

Personally, I don't like raffles because of their format where the person holding the raffle gets to hold all the items, leaving participants with nothing. Little to no risk for the person holding the raffle, and high risk for the participants.


Also, regardless of whether or not this is a scam, I feel that advertising a raffle in other people's store threads is bad etiquette. (Checked CardCaptorSophia's past posts)
I think the term was thread-jacking, although I may be wrong.

this pretty much sums up all my feeling towards this whole raffle business