Need help collecting Arena Battle Data

I'm trying to collect various data on Arena Battle to gain better understanding of the event mechanic, but the Training seems to hate me and not giving me tickets (and I only have 4☆ cards to test in this server)
so I'd be appreciated if you guys have some time and tickets to spare to contribute some information.

Things that need to be confirmed

• Unit HP and Damage
  
• Win condition
  
• Order of unit arrangement

Since there are going to be a lot of number to take note, it might be a good idea to use a camera (or a secondary phone) to record the whole fight, and watch it later (pausing every now and then) to write down the number. (then delete the video afterward)


Unit HP and Damage
Current hypothesis is that unit HP is determined by unit's cost, rarity, type, and combined stat

Data needed (for a single unit)

1. Unit name
   
2. Unit level
   
3. Unit rarity (number of ☆)
   
4. Unit cost
   
5. Unit type (Melee/Missile/Magic)
   
6. Unit gender
   
7. Unit Land/Air/Sea attack
   
8. Damage that the unit deals
   
9. Damage dealt to the unit before it dies (the last hit has to be approximated)

Win Condition
Current hypothesis is that the team that deals more damage wins,
but there's also another hypothesis saying that the team that has more remaining unit wins

Data needed

1. Total number of turns taken by your team
   
2. Total number of turns taken by the opponent's team
   
3. Total damage done by your team
   
4. Total damage done by the opponent's team
   
5. Number of units deployed on your side
   
6. Number of units deployed on the opponent side
   
7. Remaining number of your units at the end of the fight
   
8. Remaining number of the opponent's units at the end of the fight
   
9. The result of the fight

Order of unit arrangement
From my memory, the units in the same row are arranged according to the order I set them in the party, however when I tried it today, the units seems to be arranged according to the default unit order in the unit menu (the order that the card is obtained)
I need to confirm if this is the same for everyone else or not.


Thank you in advance

Current findings

• Damage Formula - Please refer to this thread http://www.fantasicaunofficial.com/t5579-battle-arena-damage-formula
  
• Victory Condition - The team with more survivors wins. If the number is the same, you win.
  
• Unit Arrangement - Units in the same row are arranged according to the order you obtained them.

Still a Mystery

• Unit HP

Would like to note that it looks like the damage a unit does is based entirely on the highest stat. Unless it was changed recently, I remember reading in the event thread that it was due to a combination of all stats. I have not confirmed this, but it certainly doesn't look like the old arena formula. I'll check again today in more detail.

I'll do this for you when I get home tonight. I'll try it with a couple different team configurations for us. I'm curious too about team order and what determines win/loss in a 50 hit battle, but wasn't keeping track of this exact thing yesterday.

For what it's worth, one thing I can say for sure from watching my battles yesterday is that Camille's attack bonus is NOT WORKING. Someone else I asked to check his Camille confirmed this. The attack bonus goes off randomly, like usual, but there is NO increase in his hit numbers when this happens. In the previous arena, when Camille's bonus would go off, he would hit at like 66K instead of the usual 44k. This time, he always hits at 44k regardless of whether the attack bonus goes off or not.

@Moderators, move this to the Research lab.

Sabin76 wrote:

Would like to note that it looks like the damage a unit does is based entirely on the highest stat. Unless it was changed recently, I remember reading in the event thread that it was due to a combination of all stats. I have not confirmed this, but it certainly doesn't look like the old arena formula. I'll check again today in more detail.

I think the damage formula is a bit more complicated than that,
and from what I see, unit level plays quite a big role in determining damage dealt.

I'll post the data I currently have.
(I only have mediocre units in this server. lol)

Name	lv	☆	Cost	Type	Gender	Land	Air	Sea	Damage	HP
Django	74	4	10	Missile	Male	14231	14971	11845	16423	about 137000
Mel	49	4	20	Magic	Female	11370	10635	15084	9851	about 154000
Vilhelm	23	4	25	Missile	Male	6787	5624	4741	2169 (1627x2 if Double)	about 84000
Leevi	11	4	10	Melee	Male	1331	2184	1470	348	about 27000

Tested with
*Skill (Land/Air/Sea = 4/4/4)
and
*Skill (Land/Air/Sea = 6/6/4)
damage is the same in both cases

I wish I had more units to test with. :/
If only I could transfer all my 6☆ and 5☆ here...
At least I'm now pretty sure that Cost and Level is being used to calculate HP, and probably damage.
But we probably need more input from you guys to understand how it works better.

Tattycoram wrote:

I'll do this for you when I get home tonight. I'll try it with a couple different team configurations for us. I'm curious too about team order and what determines win/loss in a 50 hit battle, but wasn't keeping track of this exact thing yesterday.

For what it's worth, one thing I can say for sure from watching my battles yesterday is that Camille's attack bonus is NOT WORKING. Someone else I asked to check his Camille confirmed this. The attack bonus goes off randomly, like usual, but there is NO increase in his hit numbers when this happens. In the previous arena, when Camille's bonus would go off, he would hit at like 66K instead of the usual 44k. This time, he always hits at 44k regardless of whether the attack bonus goes off or not.

Thanks
I'll be looking forward to your test result.

As for Camille, I have never used him in Arena, so I don't know how the skill is supposed to work.
Could you also check if he gets a damage boost in the next round after the attack bonus goes off, or if it stays the same for the entire match?


@KuroStar Thank you ^^

I've seen Camille's ability activated multiple times during battle without a change in damage. I wonder if the other stats boost units have the same problem.

Schdawn wrote:

Sabin76 wrote:

Would like to note that it looks like the damage a unit does is based entirely on the highest stat. Unless it was changed recently, I remember reading in the event thread that it was due to a combination of all stats. I have not confirmed this, but it certainly doesn't look like the old arena formula. I'll check again today in more detail.

I think the damage formula is a bit more complicated than that,
and from what I see, unit level plays quite a big role in determining damage dealt.

I'll post the data I currently have.
(I only have mediocre units in this server. lol)

Name	lv	☆	Cost	Type	Gender	Land	Air	Sea	Damage	HP
Django	74	4	10	Missile	Male	14231	14971	11845	16423	about 137000
Mel	49	4	20	Magic	Female	11370	10635	15084	9851	about 154000
Vilhelm	23	4	25	Missile	Male	6787	5624	4741	2169 (1627x2 if Double)	about 84000
Leevi	11	4	10	Melee	Male	1331	2184	1470	348	about 27000

Tested with
*Skill (Land/Air/Sea = 4/4/4)
and
*Skill (Land/Air/Sea = 6/6/4)
damage is the same in both cases

I wish I had more units to test with. :/
If only I could transfer all my 6☆ and 5☆ here...
At least I'm now pretty sure that Cost and Level is being used to calculate HP, and probably damage.
But we probably need more input from you guys to understand how it works better.

Tattycoram wrote:

I'll do this for you when I get home tonight. I'll try it with a couple different team configurations for us. I'm curious too about team order and what determines win/loss in a 50 hit battle, but wasn't keeping track of this exact thing yesterday.

For what it's worth, one thing I can say for sure from watching my battles yesterday is that Camille's attack bonus is NOT WORKING. Someone else I asked to check his Camille confirmed this. The attack bonus goes off randomly, like usual, but there is NO increase in his hit numbers when this happens. In the previous arena, when Camille's bonus would go off, he would hit at like 66K instead of the usual 44k. This time, he always hits at 44k regardless of whether the attack bonus goes off or not.

Thanks
I'll be looking forward to your test result.

As for Camille, I have never used him in Arena, so I don't know how the skill is supposed to work.
Could you also check if he gets a damage boost in the next round after the attack bonus goes off, or if it stays the same for the entire match?


@KuroStar Thank you ^^

Yes, you are right. I was not only commenting off the cuff, but also misremembering the numbers I was seeing. I ran a set of survival battles just now and definitely did NOT see what I thought I saw last night.

Claudio appears to be functioning but I'll look closely next battle.

I have seen various people asking about Camille's attack boost. I think only his attack boost is bugged or something.

Here's my first set of research for you with an interesting f'd up thing I noticed about Camille. Are you ready people? Here is what I saw happen when Camille's attack boost went off:
1) Camille's attack boost goes off
2) Camille hits 44,688
3) Thrain goes next. instead of Thrain hitting his usual he hits higher
WTF?
I have this on video. I'll do another video to try and confirm this later or tomorrow when I have time. Someone else may want to look out for this in their battle.

Ok, here are the rest of my findings tonight:

(all my land/sea/air/bringer of victory are maxed)

Bernhard Level 96 5* 25DC melee male
48474/17991/38728
Seems to deal either 52,321 or 61,216 depending on ... who he is hitting? I've got both numbers videotaped.
I added up the damage he took before death. He took 399,254 (The last punch was a poison kickback at 75,829 Not sure if he needed that whole amount to die?)

bernhard is the only unit I have death stats on. Will try to do more dying later or tomorrow

Camille max 5* 25DC melee male
40400/0/31100
Hit 44,688

Fawn max 4* 10DC melee male
19134/16262/12226
Deals 21,521 or 25,179 Can't figure out why sometimes it's one number and sometimes it's another. Those were the only two numbers I saw fawn deal, over two different fights, and no I wasn't counting the numbers when Fawn killed someone.

Petra Level 111 6* magic female 20DC
77541/48811/77541
Dealt 79,185 or 92,646 (see my note above on Fawn, same parameters)

Hedemarie Level 85 5* 10DC missile female
52260/56606/35109
Dealt 57,855 or 67,667

Xiao Ziao LEADERED max 5* 15DC missile female
32150/29050/20750
Dealt 38,250

EDIT/UPDATE: We believe the two different numbers on the above units reflect whether Camille's attack boost went off or not, but still warrants further study.

Tattycoram wrote:

Bernhard Level 96 5* 25DC melee male
48474/17991/38728
Seems to deal either 52,321 or 61,216
He took 399,254 (The last punch was a poison kickback at 75,829)

Camille max 5* 25DC melee male
40400/0/31100
Sometimes hit 35,750, usually hit 44,688

Fawn max 4* 10DC melee male
19134/16262/12226
Deals 21,521 or 25,179

Petra Level 111 6* magic female 20DC
77541/48811/77541
Dealt 79,185 or 92,646 (see my note above on Fawn, same parameters)

Hedemarie Level 85 5* 10DC missile female
52260/56606/35109
Dealt 57,855 or 67,667

Xiao Ziao LEADERED max 5* 15DC missile female
32150/29050/20750
Dealt 38,250

Thanks Tattycoram.
That's an interesting finding.

I'm now wondering if Camille was the cause of you team having two damage number.
I never used Camille myself, and my unit always deal the same amount of damage.

Can you test it again with Camille out of your party, and see if your damage stabilize?

Interesting idea! Ok switched in Penth for Camille. Just did a few rounds in survival.

Thrain hits either 35k or 44k (the same 44,688 number) without Camille on the team. Yes he hit different amounts different times. Weird.

Fwn hit 21k

Penth hit 51,500 (I'm leaving her in now in place of Camille)

Xiao Qiao hit 38,250

Petra hit 79,185 ( need to max her!)

Heide hit 57k (need to max her too!)

Just used another ticket. My max Thrain always hit at the 44k number these three fights. (Camille NOT on the team). Everyone else hitting at the LOWER numbers I mentioned above. (Fawn at 21k not 25k, Bernhard at 52k not at 61k, Petra at 79k not at 92k). I wonder if Camille was sometimes boosting others' attacks? Or is there variation based on the other team u encounter?) I'll do more testing tomorrow evening after work. Look forward to your findings!

Kinda confuse with the damage...

The arrangement of the Unit, i think you were right Schdawn (the order that the card is obtained) for the same row. That's why my Thrain is the first to get hits... really wish hard that i can switch him with Zenobia.

Below is my finding. (all skill are max, and unit are at max level)

Damage:
Thrain: 35750.
When Double Attack is on, it will deal the same damage twice. If 1st blow kills a unit, second attack will continue to hit the next. (sweat~)
Somehow I see he hit at 44688. To the last unit at the last row. (is this the killer blow!??) Some another unit also given out different damage too. :S
When Thrain got hit with poison, every tick it will reduce 30713. (>.<) if Double Attack is on, yes it will jz tick twice as well. (T.T) poor Thrain.

Angela: 24161.
If not mistaken, poison unit can cure poison if hit and activate his/her poison skill right on next turn.

Fawn: 21521.

Sleipnir: 42688.

Sarah: 35325. (saw 39250)
Hildegard: 35972. (saw 39969)
When Area Attack active same dmg to all unit in the same row with the lower damage number respectively.

Zenobia: 38061.
When her Iron Wall is active it can nullify any attack (>.<) correct me if I'm wrong. Coz saw my Area Attack gone waste because of her (T.T)
So if anyone of u got a non max Zenobia, do put her in. It may come in handy. If Johaan DC is only 10 or 15, he will be more useful...

Bernard: 38875.
Since damage is similar to Zenobia, so I jz swap him with her. Wishing Iron wall will activate in every turn

If I got more time will try to record it down. So can rewind back and check on the HP of my each unit.

Hope it helps.

@Tattycoram
Thanks for additional information.
Could it be that the Damage Boost from Camille is being applied to all other units except himself. This is interesting. (And might be considered a bug )
And I think 35k damage from Thrain is only when his DoubleAttack activates. 44k damage should be his normal. (This phenomenon also happened to my Vilhelm, so I'm pretty sure about this.)

@kai2kai
Thank you for the information.
Your number seems to agree with the one Tattycoram posted, so I think we're on the right track on DoubleAttack lowering the damage on each hit. Area Attack seems to be working in the same way also. As for Iron Wall, yes, it cancel Area Attack when it is activated.

I'll compile all the data into a nice spreadsheet when I get home. (I'm still at the university now.)

Schdawn wrote:

@Tattycoram
Thanks for additional information.
Could it be that the Damage Boost from Camille is being applied to all other units except himself. This is interesting. (And might be considered a bug )
And I think 35k damage from Thrain is only when his DoubleAttack activates. 44k damage should be his normal. (This phenomenon also happened to my Vilhelm, so I'm pretty sure about this.)

Yes, I use Camille and I can confirm this. I suspect that this is intended and in fact I suspect that the same applies to Claudio and Alex. People using those units will probably just not have noticed it, because they use a full male or female team so they expected the bonus to apply to every character anyway.

Camille's boost appears to last until his next attack. I'm not sure though, because I haven't found myself in any situations where Camille was knocked back in line. It might also be a set number of turns.

level 100 Camille deals 44688 damage.
level 100 Barbara deals 33125 damage, but 38756 damage when boosted by Camille.
level 100 Rose deals 46906 damage, but 54880 damage when boosted by Camille.
level 92 Thrain deals 37977 damage (2x 30382 if double attack activates), but 44433 damage (2x 35546 if double attack activates) when boosted by Camille.
level 80 Ibiza deals 25980 damage, but 30397 damage when boosted by Camille.
level 80 Angela deals 24161 damage, but 28268 damage when boosted by Camille.
level 60 Auguste deals 11890 damage, but 13911 damage when boosted by Camille.

Some observations:
+ Thrain deals 80% of his regular damage during double attack (so really 160% since he hits twice).
+ Camille boosts the damage all other units deal by 17% (multiply by 1.7).
+ I seems to me that the Battle Arena damage is calculated in a similar way as the normal Arena damage (check out the formula), because the proportions between Battle Arena damage and normal Arena damage are the same for Angela and Ibiza. Camille and Rose also share the same proportions, but strangely Thrain doesn't share the same proportions. Perhaps character level is also included in the new formula.

I will work on completing the formula for Battle Arena damage with the information supplied in this topic.

Schdawn wrote:

Tested with
*Skill (Land/Air/Sea = 4/4/4)
and
*Skill (Land/Air/Sea = 6/6/4)
damage is the same in both cases

Interesting. If I understand you correctly, damage modifiers from skills (Master of Land, Ruler of Air, Parter of Sea, Bringer of Victory) are NOT included in the formula. I didn't expect this, because they were included in the normal Arena formula. @Schdawn: can you confirm this 100% sure? I can't test it by myself, because I already maxed those skills.



EDIT: completed the formula! http://www.fantasicaunofficial.com/t5579-battle-arena-damage-formula

Please help me test & confirm the formula by checking if it calculates the damage your units deal correctly.


EDIT 2: I met an opponent using Alex (Attack Boost male) and witnessed his female units getting the boost. So it's not just Camille: it works the same for all Attack Boost units.

I ran a test on victory condition,
and it appears that victory is decided by the number of survivor on each team.
It doesn't matter how many of your units died,
as long as you have equal or more survivors at the end of the match, you win.

Quote :

My Team
Turns = 23
Damage done = 179179
Deployed = 4
Remained = 3 (1 death)

Opponent
Turns = 27
Damage done = 48854
Deployed = 6
Remained = 4 (2 death)

Result = Lose

Won, despite having more casualties

Spoiler:

Same number of survivor = still a win

Spoiler:

Colaleon wrote:

Schdawn wrote:

@Tattycoram
Thanks for additional information.
Could it be that the Damage Boost from Camille is being applied to all other units except himself. This is interesting. (And might be considered a bug )
And I think 35k damage from Thrain is only when his DoubleAttack activates. 44k damage should be his normal. (This phenomenon also happened to my Vilhelm, so I'm pretty sure about this.)

Yes, I use Camille and I can confirm this. I suspect that this is intended and in fact I suspect that the same applies to Claudio and Alex. People using those units will probably just not have noticed it, because they use a full male or female team so they expected the bonus to apply to every character anyway.

Camille's boost appears to last until his next attack. I'm not sure though, because I haven't found myself in any situations where Camille was knocked back in line. It might also be a set number of turns.

level 100 Camille deals 44688 damage.
level 100 Barbara deals 33125 damage, but 38756 damage when boosted by Camille.
level 100 Rose deals 46906 damage, but 54880 damage when boosted by Camille.
level 92 Thrain deals 37977 damage (2x 30382 if double attack activates), but 44433 damage (2x 35546 if double attack activates) when boosted by Camille.
level 80 Ibiza deals 25980 damage, but 30397 damage when boosted by Camille.
level 80 Angela deals 24161 damage, but 28268 damage when boosted by Camille.
level 60 Auguste deals 11890 damage, but 13911 damage when boosted by Camille.

Some observations:
+ Thrain deals 80% of his regular damage during double attack (so really 160% since he hits twice).
+ Camille boosts the damage all other units deal by 17% (multiply by 1.7).
+ I seems to me that the Battle Arena damage is calculated in a similar way as the normal Arena damage (check out the formula), because the proportions between Battle Arena damage and normal Arena damage are the same for Angela and Ibiza. Camille and Rose also share the same proportions, but strangely Thrain doesn't share the same proportions. Perhaps character level is also included in the new formula.

I will work on completing the formula for Battle Arena damage with the information supplied in this topic.

Schdawn wrote:

Tested with
*Skill (Land/Air/Sea = 4/4/4)
and
*Skill (Land/Air/Sea = 6/6/4)
damage is the same in both cases

Interesting. If I understand you correctly, damage modifiers from skills (Master of Land, Ruler of Air, Parter of Sea, Bringer of Victory) are NOT included in the formula. I didn't expect this, because they were included in the normal Arena formula. @Schdawn: can you confirm this 100% sure? I can't test it by myself, because I already maxed those skills.



EDIT: completed the formula! http://www.fantasicaunofficial.com/t5579-battle-arena-damage-formula

Please help me test & confirm the formula by checking if it calculates the damage your units deal correctly.


EDIT 2: I met an opponent using Alex (Attack Boost male) and witnessed his female units getting the boost. So it's not just Camille: it works the same for all Attack Boost units.

I think you nailed it
I checked with all data collected in this thread and it came out perfectly.


And yes, I'm 100% sure that damage modifiers from skills don't apply.
Tested at various skill levels and the damage all came out the same.


Now the only mystery left is unit HP.

Data collection is going to be very difficult, since we have to write all the damage numbers down,
and the toughest part is to approximate the last damage dealt before the unit dies.

Schdawn wrote:

I think you nailed it
I checked with all data collected in this thread and it came out perfectly.

Great, that makes me very happy!

It would be great if someone supplied data from a unit that had it's maximum level increased by eating ambrosia and it now 20 levels higher than it could normally be. I think the formula should work fine for those units too, but I'd like to be sure.

On the chart you posted, line 13 should read Xiao Qiao. Sorry about that, it was my original typo.

@Colaleon
I'm still surprised that you managed to figure out the formula this fast.
Thank you so much for the contribution.


@Tattycoram
and you'll love him more when The Demon Tower of Demise event comes. Camille is one of the few 5☆ units that can deal more than 1 million damage per deploy to Lilith (the 7☆ monster) if your allies also send Camille as reinforcement, and it became a fad among top rankers who don't own a 6☆ Melee unit.

but I'm not sure if his damage boost in Arena Battle will stay this way for long or not. This has high probability of being a bug, so SS might be on their way in fixing this. (In fact, they might already have fixed it. I'll try to find out when Arena 4th season hits the Japanese server.)

Thanks to Colaleon for the formula. If he can help us on the unit HP it will be great.

About unit HP, my Thrain die after taken the below damage:
13422
25033
17553
39160
26391
13422
25033
17553
39160
Total: 216727. But the last hit cannot count as full. It reach half HP at around 95168 (which is at the fourth hit), I think his HP is at range 190k.

Some thinking, if we know the max poison effect to a unit is how many percentage of max HP, then will it be a lot easier?
Like Thrain drop 30713 when he was poison, and if poison effect equal to 16% of his max HP. Then my Thrain max HP will be around 191956.

I say max poison effect because during some battle, saw some unit poison my Thrain but the effect did not drop as much as 30713. Maybe the unit is not at Max level.
Hope someone can clarify, or maybe my eye jz too tired again.

Fawn as below:
17553
13422
17553
39160
13422
39160
Total: 140270. Last hits eat 20~25% life bar, I would say his HP range is at 140k. It will be great if someone can confirm this.

And, anyone face any problem with the 'skip' button?
It happen to my Thrain. After he was poison and he use his skill, b4 the 2nd attack he was kill by poison, instead of continue to next unit, his turn jz keep there. My next unit did not attack, opponent also did nothing.
His small icon in turn line jz keep blinking.... no damage happen thru out the screen and the turn jz keep running till zero.
Is this a bug or jz my connection did not catch up with the 'skip'

@kai2kai
Thanks for the input.
I used to think poison damage might be the key to figuring out unit HP too,
but from current data I have, I'm not sure if it would be that simple.

From Tattycoram's data in the previous page,
his lv96 Bernhard took 399254 damage before dying,
and his poison damage is 75829, which is about 18%

From my own data,
my lv75 Django took about 140000 damage before dying,
and his poison damage is 18069, which is about 13% (Poison was from 4☆ Virgil)

I'm not sure if the opponent's Poison level matters, or if poison is completely based off something else (like unit's damage) or something.


Unless we have more data, it's going to be difficult to figure this out ;;

Edit: This thread does have some HP info in it. Some of us tracked for a few units how much damage they were able to take before they died, and that info is in this thread. This might help if anyone is trying to discover a formula.

I am bumping this old thread in hopes that it might be moved to the Research Lab. A conversation came up today in current events asking about arena HP (what makes a good "tank") and I remembered these experiments. Some of the data in here might be useful if anyone picks up this task again.